Police change rules on transportation of guns and ammo

gun transportation

The Victoria Police have re-written the rules for transporting firearms and ammunition.  No longer is it acceptable to:

  • carry a gun in a gun case in the back of your car;
  • put a case of shells on the floor behind your seat; or
  • keep a packet of 22s in a coat pocket.

This blog explains how they are interpreting the law – and what you can do to stop these changes.

UPDATE: SINCE RELEASING THIS BLOG, VICTORIA POLICE HAVE AMENDED THE ADVICE THEY ARE PROVIDING. SEE COMMENTS IN RED BELOW.

What are the police doing?

Advice being issued by the LRD, which you can find on their website (click here), (which has been amended since our original post) is described as being done to clarify the requirements for shooters. It’s not. It’s unhelpful because it overstates what the legal requirements are.

However the real problem is that this information is how the police officer who pulls you over will decide whether or not to take your guns off you. We hope common sense will prevail and leave shooters who have nothing wrong alone.

What is the law?

Section 126 of the Firearms Act 1996 is pretty straight forward.  It states that a person carrying or using a firearm (or ammo) must ensure they are carried or used “in a manner that is secure and is not dangerous” and take reasonable precautions to ensure they are not lost or stolen.

That’s it.

It says nothing about gloveboxes, lockable components of your vehicle or storing ammo separate from your firearm (as it is with storage).  Yet these are the things the police will insist on.

What is their advice?

Some of the preamble in their advice (below) is correct in suggesting licence holders should consider factors which affect the carriage of your firearms and the need to apply common sense. No-one could argue with that.

However that’s where the language changes. It usesd the words “are to be” and “is to be” which suggestsed their advice sets out minimum requirements.

It states the advice is “a guide only” – but earlier states that following the guidelines could still result in the laying of criminal charges. Below is the original advice provided with the main amendments in red:

Safekeeping of firearms when being transported in vehicles

The information below has been developed to provide firearm licence holders a guide on how firearms and ammunition should be transported in most circumstances.

While the guidelines are aimed at minimising risk, licence holder should consider all factors that may contribute to the firearms being transported in a manner that is not secure or in a way that presents a danger. Police will treat each individual case on its merits and there may be circumstances where the guidelines are followed but criminal charges are still justified. The advice has now been amended to link the justification to ‘aggravated circumstances’.

It is the responsibility of a firearms licence holder to ensure that the firearms do not become lost or stolen or come into the possession of an unauthorised person. In most circumstances firearms should be transported in the following manner: 

  • Firearms are to should be transported in a padded cover or hard case, unloaded and preferably rendered inoperable.
  • While being transported, firearms and ammunition are to should be kept out of sight and stored in separate receptacles that are either secured to the inside of you [sic] vehicle or in a lockable component of your vehicle.
  • Cartridge ammunition is to should be stored separately from the firearms in a part of the vehicle not readily accessible by an unauthorised person. A lockable glove box would suffice provided the key to the glove box is kept securely by the holder of the firearm licence and cannot be accessed by persons unauthorised to possess ammunition or firearms.

Licence holders should exercise a common sense approach to storage when transporting their firearms and be mindful of all of their obligations.

The advice above has been provided as a guide only and does not override storage requirements imposed by other regulatory frameworks. For example the storage requirements imposed under the Wildlife (Game) Regulations 2012 when hunting in a deer habitat. 

The police use the word “stored” in their advice – however the notion of storage is not mentioned in s126.

“Storage” is dealt with under s121 which deals with the keeping of Cat A & B firearms and ammo at the place of registration (in accordance with Schedule 4 of the Act).  Schedule 4 deals with th-1issues ‘receptacle’ and separate storage, however the schedule does not apply to ‘transportation’ (s126). It’s completely irrelevant.

In any case the majority of SUVs and 4x4s do not have ‘receptacles’ suitable for firearms.  Those which do are normally (expensive) after-market fit-outs.

The boot of the family sedan is unlikely to suffice because it can be opened from within the car without a key.  The police kindly contemplate putting ammo in the glovebox – but try putting a case of shells in a glovebox!

The amendments made by the police now include ‘speeding’ as a reason firearm security may be compromised.  That’s right  – if you’re caught doing 65 in a 60 zone, you’re speeding which means you might have compromised the security of your firearms.

Finally the police have not said why they have taken this position. They have not demonstrated what, if any, thproblem exists, nor have they consulted shooting organisations. Perhaps this story explains why they are so sensitive about guns being lost.

Our legal system

The Victoria Police need to respect our legal system.  Acts and Regulations set out requirements which the judiciary may help interpret where it is necessary to do so.

The Victoria Police has an important job to do, but it does not extend to taking on the role of interpreting legislation.  Sections 8 and 9 of the Victoria Police Act 2013 make it clear their job is to enforce the law, not make it up.

What should you do if you get charged?

Don’t argue with the police at the roadside.  You’ll lose.  Hopefully common sense will prevail and you will be given the benefit of the doubt.  However if you do get charged, you should seek legal advice but you can also look at lodging an appeal to the Firearms Appeals Tribunal.

If you lodge an appeal, be careful if the police continue to communicate with you.  Do not negotiate your rights away.

If you feel you are being asked to do this (and to withdraw your appeal), seek advice from your lawyer or your shooting organisation.

What can you do?

Even though the Victoria Police have updated their advice, we’re still unimpressed with the attitude they have expressed in it towards shooters.

Send an email to Police Minister Wade Noonan by clicking here, telling him:

  • you’ve read the advice the police have published on the safekeeping of firearms when being transported in vehicles;
  • the advice goes well beyond what is required under s126 of the Firearms Act 1996;
  • you request that he have the police withdraw the guidelines pending review; and
  • you request that he refers the matter to the Firearm Safety Foundation of Victoria for review and further advice.

.. and send a copy to your local MP!

…. and wait .. there’s more..

We’re not going to sit idle. We’re going to keep on lobbying, keeping our partner organisations informed and putting pressure on politicians from both sides to better understand where their votes come from.

We’re working towards reasserting our position at the next federal and state elections to stop things like this from happening again, and need your help.   Follow us on Facebook or join our email list.

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64 Comments.

  1. what a fucking joke

  2. No longer is it acceptable to:
    •carry a gun in a gun case in the back of your car;
    •put a case of shells on the floor behind your seat.

    I drive a single cab ute, the only logical reasonable place to store firearms and ammo is behind the seat in the cab…

    Where does this leave me???

  3. Hi Drew. Unfortunately it leaves you stranded IF the police actually enforce the law this way. Hopefully we can put pressure on to bring some common sense back into it.
    Regards

    Neil Jenkins

  4. Firearm owners never seem to be the favorite people of the Police force despite the laws we comply to. So why put more of their ‘rules’ on us, when they cant or wont enforce the laws they already have. An example, one morning last week I drove past 15 cars that were either unroadworthy or blatently breaking the law, on average I see 3 of these rule breakers each morning. But a firearm owner is always a softer target!

  5. :shock 🙁 : 😡 🙄 😥 this is loony to change something that’s working and never a problem so what about law enforcement they have lost stolen guns than any LAFOs is that ok are we your wiping sticks the stuff you ask for is totally in prickle as eg 1 ute with shifting livestock there is no room I guess I could bolt a safe on the roof lol but it wouldn’t be road worthy

  6. Hi Drew, i wouldn’t be too concerned.
    It’s really quite staright forward and always has been… take reasonable steps to prevent your firearm from being stolen. The key word here is “reasonable”. Ill interpret another part of thier guidelines:
    “While being transported, firearms and ammunition are to be kept out of sight and stored in separate receptacles that are either secured to the inside of you vehicle… (pay careful attention to this bit) “or in a lockable component of your vehicle”.”
    A lockable component of your vehicle would include the cab. The guidelines do not imply that the lockable component of your vehicle must be separate from the driver or passengers. One thing to keep in mind is you must also take the necessary steps to prevent your firearm from being accessed by an unlicensed passenger.

  7. As a station wagon owner I guess I’m going to be screwed. I can lock a small amount of ammunition in the glove box but as a competition pistol shooter I’m not sure how we’ll go with 400-500 l; which is what you need for a State Titles or Nationals. Also where does that leave us during competition while we’re away for a weekend. Are we supposed to leave firearms and ammunition locked in the car in a hotel carport?

  8. Do what I do: bolt out and stored in separate location. Action lock in. Rifle locked in hard case. Hard case cable locked to the rear seat brackets and if the car is unattended then it is locked with the alarm on.

  9. Since when have the police got the responsibility to MAKE LAWS?

  10. I drive a family sedan to the properties I hunt at and when carrying a range of different firearms how am I supposed to store all my ammo in the glove box… eg a box of 25 12g wont fit in there at all and I’m not throwing them in loose

  11. I bet the criminals don’t take notice of the new laws
    Again us Law abiding firearm owners bear the full force of the law

  12. John. “Never” is the answer!
    Regards
    Neil J

  13. I have a space case for the ammo, a space case for the rifles, both separate. Bolts in the gun bag. Both cases tethered to a point in the car, such as a tie down point.
    That shows diligence and it’s easy to do. 🙂

  14. Looks like we have a lot more lock box building to do

  15. All you need is a cranky cop and you are gone. This should not be so complicated. Need concerted campaign by all parent organisations to get it clarified

  16. I have a ute so when traveling with guns I chain mine in the back seat floor and ammo is in a locked ammo box. On the floor with a rug over – out of sight. All reasonable precautions taken.

  17. SOOOO, Is this LAW or just a recommendation? If its not a law, Its irrelevant, Its no more than a suggestion. My 2 Vehicles are a ’99 Kia Sportage and a ’76 Nissan Patrol Ute. Very little storage area.

  18. Can I store my firearms in the back of my ute using a lockable tool box that’s fixed/bolted to the vehicle?

  19. Loris

    It’s hard to know given the somewhat vague language used by the Victoria Police but if the tool box is bolted, then I would suggest that would be ok with the police. We think their requirements are excessive but either way what you have sounds pretty darn secure!

    Regards

    Neil

  20. Can’t u just say your a terrorist going on holiday’s.
    It friggin seems to be workin somewhere.

  21. Well let the true gun license holders & gun owners cop the crap for all the unlawful one’s as per usual ❗

  22. Legislators are to write law not police. When police write law it is called a police state. I suggest a lawsuit against the police involving the charge of treason to get the ball rolling.

  23. Hi, guys, we all know that the Cheif Commissioner has the power to create conditions, the Firearms Act creates that power, this power is delegated to a particular rank/level within LRD. This/these is/are not conditions on your license, the conditions are printed on your carrier which your plastic license it attached too when you renew etc.
    These as indicated are guidelines, I would not read to much into it they are saying to be vigilant in my opinion.
    I do not believe that any police officer would prosecute as there is no legislation to support their guidelines, however if you lost a firearm from your vehicle then obviously there are questions to be answered and really if your serious you are going to protect your investment when it’s in your car.
    A but of reasonableness needs to be applied here.
    Cheers
    Rob

  24. Keep your shirt on people. If the law hasn’t changed there is nothing to enforce. Going for a hunt or to a competitions at the range and if you’re doing the right thing (driving correctly, are not under the influence, haven’t got a wrap sheet as long as your arm, guns are registered and aren’t a smart arse if pulled over)…… You’ll be right!

  25. Do you have the Minister’s email. I travel to Victoria for the duck season by plane from the NT and hire a car. How am I to secure my shotgun in the hire car?

  26. Hi every one, maybe people with tray utes can have lock boxes place under the tray, i have seen some done they are great, out of sight and you don’t know that there are firearms been carried. Once again the act of one has an in pack on the law abiding people.

  27. Hi William

    Fair comment. While we can’t guarantee this, we also hope common sense will prevail. I have amended the article to add this point.

    Regards
    Neil

  28. So can I have my rifle mounted in a lockable bracket behind the seat of the ute?
    With a padlock through the trigger guard?
    Surely that would be considered “reasonable lengths”?

  29. I think that all you are trying to do is disarm the Australian people for what reason we will find out one day as for this so called new law what a joke my glove box would be lucky to fit a box of shells in it let a lone hold what amount that I use at the gun range I drive a 4wd vehicle so please tell me where I am going to place my guns with out breaking yet another law that makes no sense what so ever you can not control the criminal element so what gives you the wright to punish law biding citizens. this is for no reason there then a couple of neo nazi that do not even now hat a gun looks like or has ever held one before . lets get to the real reason you want guns band full stop so you make it your lifes work to harass us at every turn you get .maybe we the Australian people will get sick of all the lies and vote you and your friends out of government because you are what the problem is oh I do agree that we need some type of laws that will keep the honest gum people owners of Australia safe from people like you that have lost touch with real alertly it is the media under your control spreading more lies p.s I think you should re think this silly law as it will cost the tax payers million of dollors in court cases that will be a waste of our courts time so please rethink this law as it wil not work !

  30. Just spoke to my local ‘Victoria DFO’.

    The two main parts of the legislation are this: 1 – The firearm/s “must be secured and not dangerous.” 2 – “All reasonable precautions to ensure that the firearm is not lost or stolen.”.

    In the scenarios, I discussed with him it became apparent that if your firearm is lost or stolen from your vehicle then the onus will be on ‘you’ as the owner, to prove that you did the best that you could to prevent the gun being pinched. He told me that the prosecution will always argue as to “Why?”. Why was the gun left in the car? Why wasn’t an action lock fitted or bolt removed? Why wasn’t the case covered from view? Why wasn’t there someone looking after the car? Why? Why? etc etc.

    He further stated that in any case where there is a firearm in your car and your vehicle was stolen or broken into and as a result the gun was taken, then you would always be fighting an uphill battle as they will always argue as to “why” was the gun left in the vehicle when it could have been secured at a residence or better supervised.

    I asked about the ‘you’re out hunting’ scenario, where a second firearm is left in secured in a locked vehicle at a campsite and the vehicle was stolen or broken into. The reply was that again the question would be asked “Why was the vehicle containing a firearm left unattended?” And why was there a need for a second firearm if you were only using one?

    As you can see, you as the shooter will always be on the back foot if your guns are stolen from your vehicle.

    The ‘car theft from a shopping centre’ scenario was discussed and again he stated that the ‘Why?’ Questions would be asked. “Why were the guns taken in the vehicle to the shopping centre and not secured at a residence?” “Why wasn’t someone left with the vehicle?” “Was it necessary to go to the shops with firearms secured in the car and why wasn’t there an alternative?”.

    There are thousands of “What ifs” and other scenarios out therr and the general rule of thumb is that you’re screwed if you car gets broken into or stolen and your guns go missing, no matter what you do, it all comes backon you and back to why? and “did you do enough?” or “Was there an alternative?”.

    Even if you (like me), have your guns in a ‘bolts out’ condition, action locks in, other working parts removed (where possible), locked in multiple locked cases / drawers, bolted or cable locked to the vehicle, in a locked car with an alarm fitted…the fact remains that those guns are there because of you and if they get pinched it’s because you had them there and that provided an opportunity to a criminal to get their hands on them.

    So???…What can you do??? My advice is to do all that I have listed in the paragraph above (no matter how annoying), plus, be discrete. Do not advertise the fact that firearms are present. Don’t leave rifle bags / cases in view. Don’t leave your car unattended for long periods and if other alternatives exist for storage or a person can stay and superivse, then definitely use those options. You may argue that it’s a pain or inconvenient to do all the above mentioned stuff or cry “Why should I have to? But the fact remains that you will always be held accountable and it will be you in the hot seat if your guns go missing. Just make yourself a hard target to steal from and maybe the crooks will go elsewhere…Food for thought.

  31. Just wondering, In there dayly duties of being a serving member of Vic Pol, Do the police actually hold a licence to carry and use a firearm???? or is it just part of their training????

  32. Here they go again! Why screw us even more? Would it not be simpler to make & enforce very strong laws for unauthorized possession of a firearm! Simple logic that applies to everything “if it is not yours, don’t touch it”!

  33. I just love the way this information is forwarded onto the people.. Did licenced gun owners get a letter or email informing them of these changes????? NO THEY DIDN”T.. This is just another way the govt and police want to stick to the people who are following the rules… 👿 because thats how this country rolls, punish the ones trying to do the right thing, and let all the others go..

  34. G’day guys,

    While I can see where you are coming from Rohan, I still think it’s unreasonable.

    If some breaks the law and steals/steals from your vehicle the onus should be on the criminal.

    Yes firearms should be out of sight as best as practical, yes ammunition should be kept in a safe manner. However the criminals seem to be getting off lightly here.

    I personally keep my ammunition and bolts in a locked toolbox, my guns in bags covered by a blanket. Sometimes however I need carry a lot of ammunition and it is impractical to get a metal box for it. I still cover it with a blanket, and put it in a different part of the vehicle.
    I also have two shotguns, which can’t have the bolts removed.

    I also don’t like the example of stopping at a shop you gave. It’s not like you’re allowed to take them in with you?

    I am also worried, if the onus is so heavily placed upon the firearm owner during transport, how long will it be until you on charged if your firearms get stolen form your residence?

    What about when you are using a firearm from a vehicle? Do these guidelines still need to be followed? What about farmers on their own properties? The guidelines need to be aimed at a wider user group than jut city people.

    One last point.
    How can they update guidelines, and expect them to be followed if they don’t write to individual licence holders.

    Any changes should be made in consultation with the end users!

  35. The LRD website clearly states that is a guide and cannot fit every circumsatnce.

  36. Hi Bart

    His email address is: [email protected]

    Regards
    Neil Jenkins

  37. I have an 80 series Landcruiser I built in an ammo safe and lock my gun in a case then chaine it to the car then put things over it so no one can see it is this good enough I hope so

  38. No surprises here, my ammo and bolts are locked in steel ex military ammo tins and the firearms are in a cases that are secured to a child safety restraint bolt in the back of the vehicle. Next item thatI am looking at investing in so that I can comply with rules and ever changing regs in the socialist republic of victoria is a cloak of invisibility.

  39. I ride a motorbike gun in bag over should locked ammo in pocket ???????????

  40. I ride a motorbike. My rifle is in a locked bag over shoulder and ammo in pocket am I in the wrong???

  41. They can write all the guidelines they want in the end only the actual law will be followed so until that happens nothing changes. If their interpretation of the law changes they can make it difficult for us until we take it to court then the actual applies.
    I work in security as well as shoot every weekend and I know that not only do I have to be an obedient “golden” citizen but I have to look like one too or I lose my job and sport.
    All my firearms are locked in a case or trigger locked during transport and ammo is locked away separately anyway because that’s how I like to do it. I rarely remove bolts and I don’t have any shooting stickers on my car not even ssaa member sticker.
    Don’t be a dick and you shouldn’t attract any shit.

  42. Hi Lynx

    The police seem to be suggesting so. I’m less convinced. Personally I would keep doing what you’ve been doing. The police are out of line on this.

    Regards

    Neil

  43. I use to have firearms befor the shotting in tassy
    i find it funny the police are giveing every one a hard time but the they keep load guns beside themself while at work. So they tell as to do this shit so should they
    That’s right they are the law so the can do what they want.

  44. I’m just wondering on the point Matty has raised given the transport of firearms. Just a small hypothetical for my betters on here.

    Do the Police receive and exemption under the law for the transport of firearms, as they keep a loaded pistol on their person while driving?
    Does this exemption(if is exists) only apply when they are bells and light and operating as an emergency vehicle. Other wise a police vehicle must comply with all other regulations and presumably firearms transport regulations at other times. Hence a speeding police vehicle that is not bells and light is subject to the same legislation as a normal vehicle and the above listed guidelines.
    Would this also mean that a police vehicle in pursuit of a felon requires the officers to secure their firearms accordingly prior to engaging in the pursuit.
    Of am I barking up the wrong tree here as the Victorian police are not bound by Victorian laws and regulations the they enforce?

  45. I do almost exactly the same with Sam (and some others) my firearms and ammo, and also refuse to put a SSAA sticker on the car so as to avoid advertising that I may have them in the car or on me.

    The problem here, is that 1) the police has not justified why they have changed the rules on firearms carriage, 2) that the legislation contains contradictions, 3) still up to the police to interpret each case, instead of enforcing a clear set of legislation, and 4) the police gets to do just to us licensed shooters, whatever they want and whenever, as they desire, and without due notification to us.

    I think there are certain elements in our government and police, who watch Judge Dredd and touch themselves in private, and gets orgasmic whenever he enforces the law and takes out a citizen…

    I know that they need to have more ‘flexibility’ to deal with imminent threats from would be terrorist activities, and those circumstances, and I personally would like the police to have that flexibility and also to keep themselves safe from harm. However, there are many other ways to do so…

  46. The police will open a can of worms if they are not careful.

    So 0.051% alcohol if you have firearms in the car means you are in breach of your duty of care. And, presumably, that’s 0.00% for a truck or emergency services vehicle driver? How come my firearms are safe if I’m 0.049% but a truck driver’s are not if he’s 0.01%?

    How about at home? My guns are stored according to the Act so am I not allowed to be 0.051% at home? Will the police implement random breathalysers of firearms owners at their homes? What about firearms dealers? Drug and alcohol tests of them and their staff?

    The police can say what they like but it’s the courts who interpret the law not the police and they are in danger of creating a serious division between themselves and legal firearms owners with this type of behaviour. Go for the bad guys cops not for those of us who obey the law.

  47. We’re surprised they didn’t add “failing to indicate when changing lanes” to the road rules applying to firearms!

  48. I don’t quite agree with the law, but you never really know what other people do with their Firearms/a>
    …we have psycho’s out there, but most use it to protect themselves or for hunting trips.

  49. The Government Reacts to VicPol's Behaviour - pingback on December 16, 2015 at 2:30 am
  50. while I was hunt deer up the bush, just got out of the bush took of my bum bag ,jacket and placed my unloaded gun on the front seat, drove 500 yards down the road to another gully and was stopped by the police . I got charged last November Cup weekend for having my gun sitting on the front seat and shells in my pocket, yet I was still in the process of hunt deer in legal deer habitat. charge with unsecure firearm and ammo. lost my license and guns. so much for section 126

  51. Police are not trying to charge people when they haven’t done anything wrong. Separate you guns and ammo lock the bolt in with the ammo if you ahven’t got a lockable glove boxs. Make sure the ammo box is good quality. You will never have a problem if you don’t break the law. Other police will soon jump and down if a member has gone overboard. Police are targeting criminals not people doing the right thing. I just hope law makers think the same instead of making it hard for people doing the right thing.

  52. Stop the whinging. Do the right thing and your won’t have any trouble. Too many conspiracy theorists and victims here. If an idiot lets his guns get stolen they might end up being used against a family by a refugee from a war torn country or a druggie. Lock the box to your seats and make sure it’s covered and stop crying like a pack of nutters.

  53. Hmmm … I trust you aren’t a shooter – and have never transported a firearm?

  54. I am a shooter and I have handguns. And I have a family and I know that we have Sudanese refugees running about Melbourne terrorising families with no regard for the law. And if they get their hands on guns because people don’t transport or store them wisely then decent people will be put in danger. It’s pretty simple to buy a chain and lock a gun box to the base of a seat. I’m just sick of whingers who play the victim

  55. My son was pulled over by the police and (rifles in cases ammo in tool box) they decided in their wisdom to throw the book at him and his friend , he asked if he could call for a second opinion and the local Sargent turned up and defused the situation (common sensed prevailed ) this upset the two officers luckily he had a p plate missing so they didn’t go away empty handed .

  56. I was carer for my ex partners son who has a variety of medical conditions, brain damage etc, now in his teens. I have no doubt that if he found a gun with ammo and had 15 minutes to work out how to operate it, someone would get shot.
    Unfortunately there are many unstable people who live among us that cause a significant amount of pain and suffering and possibly death to the innocent before they are taken off the street.

  57. Fishinrockhound

    As always, an emotive issue. It’s the law abiding citizens who suffer the over reactive attention of police and the anti-gun nuts. Remain calm, keep informed and above all, do not respond with knee jerk angst. There are numerous products available to secure your firearms and ammunition, and numerous products available to render your firearms inoperable. Trigger guard locks and breech plugs offer the best option for those who cannot have large lockable gun safes in or on their vehicle, and there are under seat safes available that can store sufficient ammunition. When it comes to dealing with the police interpretations of the law you can only hope that your efforts are sufficient. Remember that if the officer had any brains at all he or she would not be a police officer.

  58. Just keep your shit out of sight or under a blanket.. not rocket science kids.. cops csnt search your car without a warrant anyway..

  59. section 126 states “carrying or using” , nothing about transportation.Also remember there are recommendations,and these are not always complying with what the actual law states. Take it to court and contest the charge. If you win it will make the police look like fools, and set a precedent.

  60. Demetri Moutouris

    DJM love my sport.
    It is in our best interest as licensed firearms owners to protect our sport by keeping our equipment secure at all times at our premises or in transit while going to the range or to our favorite hunting spots.
    This will keep the law,greenies and public safe and we have done our bit. In transit if unsecured you have a car accident while on your travels and the rifles,pistols or ammo are not secure you have been knocked out
    this would render them insecure and unprotected for anyone to access them. so as responsible gun owners we should always keep our sport protected by doing the right thing by all.
    As to the police you will always have a difference of interpretation of the law.
    To secure my firearms in transit I have several metal tool boxes with a padlock on it for transport of Ammo and rifle bolts.This in turn is chained and padlocked to the car rifle or pistol is in a lockable
    pelican carry case wheather going to the range or hunting.I throw a blanket over them also.No stickers on my transport and I never travel wearing my camo gear store it in a box and put it on when I reach my hunting spot and change again before my return trip.
    This way I do not attract attention to myself when refuelling etc.
    As for the police if you own firearms you are on the computer system
    so any car that is registered to you when they pull you up they know that you could be carrying guns.
    Keep it simple keep them happy protect our sport for us and future generations.Stand up for our rights to own firearms. join a Sporting club as they stand up for our best interests.
    As for the illegal firearms and gangsters out there this is who the law and politicians need to chase NOT US LAW ABIDING CITIZENS.

  61. That’s all:cool: but I know of licensed shooters that have kids in the back seat while driving on the hunt with the firearm locked and loaded and shooting ftom inside the vehicle. Acts like This I think is the cause for most of the police attitude .hunters and shooters need to be responsible and be set up for all purpose of Safty shooting is the last box to tick.

  62. No point in using colorful words, our opinion needs to be shown at the ballot box.The police will do what their political masters tell them to.If they get enough knock backs from the courts they will back off.My experience has been most cops are fairly reasonable but some get carried away with their personal views.The politicians need to understand that they will be held accountable by a large number of voters.

  63. anyone who thinks the police are there to support the law abiding firearms owners is a fool. the culture a told to me by a NSW police officers is they have a directive to take firearms any chance you get, and the policy is not to give them back. people quoting the law are technicality right but magistrates are famous for rulering on their own ideologues not the law. you will have to get before a real judge to have a chance and that is a long hard road. the police are not your friends, the system is not there to help you. the police and government want you to give up on shooting.

  64. Firstly the comment by “EMILE” dated Nov 19 2015 is very close to the facts and well worth reading. Well done EMILE. Secondly you need to understand the difference between storage of firearms and ammunition and being in possession of them. When you are in possession of firearms and ammunition they are not subject to storage and you are only legally required to take reasonable precautions to prevent them being lost or stolen. This means when you are transporting firearms and ammunition in a vehicle they are with you and in your possession and as such are not subject to storage as per Schedule 4 of the Firearms Act 1996. I’m sure you know it is an offence to have a loaded firearm in the vehicle. If you leave the vehicle with your firearms in it they are no longer in your possession and become the subject of storage requirements. If your vehicle is stolen with firearms in it then the Police will investigate each case individually to see if the firearms were in the locked boot. The ammunition is in a locked box separate from the firearms. The vehicle was locked and you have the keys with you. If you do this you have taken all reasonable precautions to prevent your firearms from being lost or stolen and may not be prosecuted. If you have any questions regarding firearms I would suggest you speak directly to your Firearms Officer.

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