CFCV How-To-Vote guide

John Howard - Never again

Imagine if the candidate you voted for turned out to be a gun-hater.

Don’t let that happen. Make sure you vote for candidates who will stand up for shooters. 

Get your mates to do the same as well.

Victoria’s major shooting organisations have spent the past few months developing a series of voting recommendations involving extensive discussions with the shooting community, political parties and political experts.

We want better political outcomes

These recommendations are designed to support candidates who are supportive of the shooting sports and oppose those who are actively opposed to the shooting sports.

This has produced good results for the shooting sports in the past and helped to keep hunting, gain funding for range upgrades and end the careers of some politicians who pushed for more gun restrictions.  However we need to do a lot more if we are to stop the attacks on what we love to do, as we saw with the recent fight over the Adler.


Voting in the Lower House (House of Representatives)

We recommend shooters vote for the following candidates

Seat          Candidate              Party

Bruce        Helen Kroger         Liberal
Deakin      Michael Sukkar      Liberal
Holt           Anthony Byrne      Labor
Indi           Marty Corboy        Nationals
Latrobe     David Fent           Shooters, Fishers & Farmers (but you must put Labor at #2.)
Mallee       Andrew Broad      Nationals
McEwen    Rob Mitchell         Labor (or alternatively follow the How-To-Vote card for Australian Country Party – click here to download it)
Murray      Damien Drum      Nationals
Wannon    Dan Tehan           Liberals

If your seat is not listed, then that’s because we do not have a specific recommendation for your seat.  Instead we suggest you support the pro-shooting minor parties (see the list below for the Senate) followed by the other candidates in your preferred order.

In all instances we suggest you put the Greens last, as their policies include a ban on all recreational hunting and more restrictions on the use of firearms.  Also do not vote for the Animal Justice Party or Derryn Hinch’s Justice Party – as they also have policies to take your guns off you.  Number them just above the Greens.

If you’re unsure about what seat you’re in, you can easily find out by clicking this link to the Australian Electoral Commission’s website.  Or check your enrollment by clicking this link.

Voting in the upper house (Senate)

In the Senate you need to number at least 6 boxes “above the line”. We recommend you include in your top 4 choices in whatever order you prefer (listed alphabetically here)

  • Australian Country Party (Group AA)
  • Australian Motoring Enthusiasts Party (Group W)
  • Liberal Democrats (Group AH)
  • Shooters, Fishers & Farmers Party (Group AG)

followed by the major parties.  Remember to number at least 6 boxes.  Again do not include the Greens, Animal Justice Party or Derryn Hinch’s Justice Party in your top choices.

But wait. There’s more!

We’ve put together a flyer with all the recommendations.

Print it 2016 fed election flyer - broad recommendations - web (3)out for your mates.  Take it with you when you go to vote. Post it on your blog!


No problem!  The Australian Deer Association has published its nation-wide How-To-Vote guide.  Click here to see it.

Want to vote now?

A wise choice!  Avoid the crowds and vote early.   For more info on where and when you can vote, click this link and use the postcode / suburb checker (in the the big light blue box) for your area.

Before you go….

Before you go, why not join our email list?  We know you’re busy but if you sign up now, you’ll get regular updates on what’s happening in the shooting sports from Victoria’s major shooting organisations, when it happens.

Also, you’ll get invited to the 2017 Victorian Shooting Industry Forum being held in February!  Click here to sign up now.

Leave a comment ?


  1. Ok everybody put the greens L A S T

  2. I am sure you will have an explanation, but I am wondering why you have recommended Damien Drum for Murray when there is a Country Party candidate in that electorate.

  3. Do you actually have to put six down though?

  4. Yes. The system has changed so that you, the voter, get to direct where your preferences go rather than the parties through their Group Voting Tickets. We actually think you should number more than 6 so that your vote doesn’t get “exhausted”. Do not just put a “1” in one box or your vote won’t count.

  5. Hi. Yes, there were reasons. We don’t mind people voting for other minor parties ahead of the Nats provided the Nats are ahead of the Libs / Labor / Greens.

  6. Matthew Carra

    Why should us shooters vote for the Libs? Weren’t they the ones that ban the guns in 96? Weren’t they the ones that put a temporary ban on the Adler? Weren’t they the ones that pushed for reform to the 96 NFA? I think you guys should rethink your voting lineup!

  7. Hi Matt

    I can understand the sentiment but ultimately govt will be held by Labor or the Coalition so we cannot ignore that reality. However our strategy isn’t about helping them, but their candidates who will stand up for us. This has worked for us in the past with the range funding, killing off of hikes in dealer fees etc. Again it’s about the candidate, not the party.

  8. 👿

    Get serious, they vote upon parties lines and not what the electorate / shooters want…only interested in keeping their seat with Lib / Labor / NP etc and reaching eligibility mark for generous retirement payments for life.

    Had this in NSW with local MLC who is Liberal and a shooter, said will never vote for Ammo Bill. Come late night motion to pass, on Federal budget night when all eyes elsewhere…. Guess who voted for the bill on party lines !

  9. show Me where in voting law where it says 6 or more? I have read legislation where it says 1 or more is a valid vote.

  10. We deal with this in a different way to what you are envisaging. We don’t deal with the MPs but others who matter more.

  11. Matthew Carra

    I’m sorry Neil I know you are trying to do your best but I simply can not take your advise and vote for any Liberals in this years election. The Liberals have done to much damage to the Australian shooter in the past and I do not trust them. I also will not vote Labor or Greens. Can you come up with another option?

  12. You’ve cut out everyone who could form government! I understand your angst but understand that the Libs have only done damage where we haven’t been politically effective. Our strategy is loosely based on what the NRA does in that it’s based on candidates rather than parties, hence why it varies seat by seat

  13. Neil, isn’t it all about “the balance of power”. ie. sufficient indipendants to control the Houses.

  14. Hi Steve
    A good question, but no. In fact if anyone was to hold the BOP, it would be more likely to be the Greens, unfortunately.

    Others may have different views but I would suggest BOP rarely results in anything being delivered. Two notable exceptions include Brian Harradine who pulled a lot of money out of the sale of Telstra, and the Democrats on the GST concessions, but apart from that I’m struggling to think of where BOP has delivered something for a constituency.

    Our focus is on the lower house and building relationships which go beyond the immediate election cycle. It’ll take years for us to do this but it does pay off.

  15. Flinders recommendation?

  16. Hi Rob
    No. I’m aware another pro-shooting political interest was looking at that seat but they didn’t put a candidate up.

    The choices you have are (the numbers simply reflect the ballot positions, not anything from me):

    VIC Flinders GENTLE, Yvonne Rise Up Australia Party 1
    VIC Flinders LEWIS, Shane W Independent 2
    VIC Flinders HOGARTH, Willisa The Greens 3
    VIC Flinders GLEIXNER, Carolyn Australian Labor Party 4
    VIC Flinders HUNT, Greg Liberal 5
    VIC Flinders WILD, Ben Animal Justice Party 6


  17. Very Concerned

    CFCV must be compromised and/or paid off. No one in their right mind would even hint at voting for a party that is selling of our country at an astronomical rate and the primary reason we had semi-automatics taken away from us in the first place. Please people, do not follow this guide. Vote independents aligned with our beliefs and stop the erosion of our pastime.

  18. Hi Very. John Howard was why we lost our semi-autos and he’s not running this time around. So don’t worry, no one will vote for him. Seriously what are you thinking when you put your post together? Voters have to put one party ahead of the other otherwise their vote won’t count. If you want to offer another view, then fine, but offer an alternative view.

  19. Neil your reasoning behind voting for our enemies is very vague and leaves allot to be desired. Wheres the transparency? so many questions. did you really expect everyone to be yay ok with this considering everything that has happened?

  20. Jamie. The basic tenor that we support candidates who support the shooting sports is well known. It’s the nature of politics that we can’t always post our full reasoning publicly but i’d like to point out two things on process, if I may. First, I’m the messenger: (and not that you are necessarily suggesting this but) they are not my own views etc. Secondly the recommendations were developed by the delegates from the major shooting orgs, albeit not necessarily in the public spotlight. I don’t know if you are a member of a shooting org but if you are, I’d simply say any shooting org can join us and get involved if they want.

  21. OK fair enough Neil I see where your coming from. I will add my 2 cents though. I can see the strategy being utilized here but allot of people are going to see it as high risk for many reasons given that candidates tend to vote the party line regardless of their opinion and views. what works for the NRA politically might not work as well here. Just saying…


  22. Jamie

    That can still happen, however it means if someone fails to keep their end of the bargain, they’ll know we won’t help them again. Deals like this happen all the time. Preference deals are the same in that they are deals, but they can be broken – but with consequences.

    It’s not foolproof, but it does work well.

    As for what might work for the NRA might not work here, yes, I agree, but then again, we’re happy to give it a go!



  23. bruce Bertram

    Lot of crap… The Liberals / nationals.. ( aka Pat Mac Namara ) in the Victorian Government did not keep there word and we voted them in and they then screwed us over.. AND YOU STILL WANT US TO TRUST THEM ?????? I attended both marches in Melbourne and was lied to by guys just wanting my vote…
    I am in the fire arms industry.. I am in Mitchels electorate .. I visited him at his office when he was fist elected 6 years ago and he was going to visit my factory??? I am still waiting ?????

    What about John Madigan ????

  24. is there a position for the Greens below ‘Last”

  25. Bruce

    I don’t see John Madigan running for the DLP but do see someone on the senate paper by the same name running for “MFP” (see: so I’ve got no idea what’s happening there!

    On your issue about McNamara, yes he sold out on us – but he wouldn’t have had if shooters had his commitment to them beforehand. He didn’t, so he obviously made a judgement to back Howard over us. The Nats are still hurting from that and so are we, hence the need for us to get stronger working relationships with them.

    As for Mitchell, well, let me just say our decision to back some candidates involved discussions with others. It’s those discussions we’re interested in. Forgive me for not saying more on such a public forum.

  26. bruce Bertram

    Neil.. since its an important discussion.. why not bare all and cost some of these guys there jobs… Thats what they understand..

    We had a commitment from Mac Namara at the first rally that if he was re-elected he would support us.. He was re – elected with our help and failed to even TALK to us at the second rally and shafted us…. He was my sitting member,, and would not talk to me or return phone calls…

    The Federal guys are no better…….

    Getting even is far better than making so called friends with people who will lie and say any thing to get our vote.
    I know I am rather strong on this… but costing “them” there jobs is the best message we can send them.. These guys only have one interest… Their own re election …..

  27. Hi Bruce

    Agree with you on pretty much everything. The problem in trying to cost McNamara his job is two fold.

    First, it came too late – his public position had been declared.

    Second, we didn’t show him we could harness the shooting vote.

    We did very well with the march but did we make it count at the ballot box? Probably, yes, but 96 was over and done by them – so the political action became a punishment of the Nats which was not undeserved.

    So I think you’ll find we’re trying to get in before those sorts of decisions are made. It would be easier to discuss this in a less open forum. If you’re in Victoria you might like to consider attending our next industry forum which I’m expecting we will open up to any shooter interested in attending.

  28. I can’t find a Burns on the Holt ballot paper

  29. Darn! You found an error. It should be Byrne. Am fixing it now. Sorry about that!

  30. Hi Neil,
    Agree or disagree with the recommendations the CFCV have put up, just want to say that I personally appreciate the hard work and long hours that you and the council put in to lobby on our behalf.
    Keep it up.

  31. Thanks John

    Really appreciate the feedback. There’s a few things we need to iron out but we’re happy with how we’re positioning ourselves.


  32. Menzies is a very sad voting option, almost a greens seat if liberals trip up, so I have done some investigation and as far as the lower house goes I would recommend to you the independent Ramon Robinson. He has some progun for hunting and pro self-defense policies and a balanced budget view as well as positive moves towards future Australia.

    Other than that we will almost certainly have to vote Liberal second but we are lucky to have Family First if that blows your trumpet but I would likely try and get liberals up over the last 4 candidates In
    Stephen Mayne – independant
    Animal Justice Party
    The Greens, LAST

    Summary: As a Gun owner my votes for Lower House of Menzies in Victoria in a seat of diminishing returns for liberals election after election

    Independant Ramon Robinson
    Family First
    Voluntary Euthanasia Party
    Independant Stephen Mayne
    Animal Justice Party

    Thats the take on it IMHO.

  33. Hi Anonymous. Without knowing who you are and without having spoken with Ramon ourselves, it’s not possible to support your ticket but we do support putting Liberals above Labor in that seat. We discussed putting this on our HTV but left it out – but certainly Kevin Andrews in on our side. Also we know Stephen Mayne and I would suggest putting him where you have suggested is close to what we’d recommend if we were to prepare a HTV for that seat. If Ramon would like to speak with us after the election with a view to 2018, he should drop us an email after this election and we’ll go from there. Regards Neil

  34. G’day Neil,
    I can’t find your reccomendations for Lalor.

  35. Whats wrong with voting informal if you dont like any of them !!!!!!!
    May be if the informal vote were to win ‘they” may take some notice….

  36. It seem that informal vote my only option in Isaacs – liberal, labor, greens and “crazy cat lady” – animal justice party

  37. Have you guys actually spoken to Rob Mitchel ??, how does he go from 1st down to 5th in McEwan ?, good to see we have decided to smack the major party’s its long over due, their candidates rarely do anything for us, only follow party lines (or is that lies ?).

  38. Hi John

    Rob’s still in our good books. The ACP has Rob below the minor parties but still ahead of his Liberal opponent (and the Greens) which is the important thing. You’ll see he is still our #1 pick but following the ACP ticket is equally acceptable.


  39. Peter Moncrieff

    Re your recommendation to vote for Michael Sukkar, Liberal in Deakin. He has either had a massive change of heart and brain or he has duped the CFCV. I recall reading his remarks in a newspaper, probably the Whitehorse Leader where he made the usual Howard worshipping, anti firearm owner remarks that most politicians make.

  40. I’m sorry Neil, whilst I have great respect for the work CFCV does, I cannot accept that shooters should cast a vote for the Liberals or the Nationals at any time, under any circumstances. They have previously shown they cannot be trusted. They have carelessly and contemptuous betrayed a loyal support base in the past, I see no evidence that they wouldn’t do it again, in a heartbeat. Are we forgetting many of the Liberals leading lights were member of the Howard Government?

  41. Hi Peter

    Don’t worry – this has been taken care of. We’re working with people close to him.



  42. John

    Our strategy does not back one party over another, but the candidates who will go into bat for us. For every Liberal candidate we support, there are many more we don’t, and it’s the same with Labor. When we do this we don’t just speak with the candidates but others who help run their campaigns. I know it’s fuzzy wording but I’m mindful we’re in a public forum here.



  43. bruce Bertram

    NEIL. You are becoming like a broken record…. Havent you picked up yet that the general shooter is not trusting of our Government !!!
    We have been screwed over many times. We are sick of them lying to us .. and you are asking us to trust them again!!!!!!! I do not trust back room deals and things we “must believe” but are not told about.If its some secret deal then its BULL SHIT. I am voting informal in the lower house and shooters party in the upper.. “They” wont get the money for my vote this way either.

  44. Bruce
    You’ve made your mind up not to participate in the electoral process which is your choice. Again don’t forget these recommendations are backed by Victoria’s major shooting organisations so if you are a member of them then raise it with them. We’re just delivering what they want. If you aren’t a member of one then there’s no point venting at me.

    I don’t know if you are a member of a pro-gun political party but if you are, then I’d suggest it needs to make a case out why we should support it, as we want results, not promises. The only people who have been delivering are David Lleyonheljm (who Victorians obviously cannot vote for) and Ricky Muir – so you might like to consider both SFFP and Ricky in your top 6. You could also add ACP and LDP but whatever you do don’t include Derryn Hinch’s party, the AJP or Greens.

    Out of interest, what lower house electorate do you live in?


  45. I don’t understand there logic if you follow there how to vote advice you vote liberal then labor then national …… wasn’t it the liberals that took our fights of us go start with (Howard) labours in bed with the greens and the national might make a better choice

  46. Comment approved minus the statements on who to vote for. You mentioned Howard. That was the problem with the Libs in 96. Our strategy is to target more John Howards rather than his party. Same with Labor. The difference with our strategy is that we’ve been using it since 2002 with really positive outcomes for shooters. The mistake we made was to start backing a minor party – while it sounds logical, we went backwards so we’re going back to what we know works.

  47. Hans Witteveen

    How did Michael Sukkar get the nod for Deakin? I have met him and contacted him by email and got no joy.

  48. Neil, I’m not implying your backing one party over another, I’m asking what you’re backing the Liberals or Nationals at all, and by that I mean any candidate, for any seat, in either House. History has demonstrated they’ll say all the right things before an election, and throw us under the bus in a heartbeat after. I’m saying history tells us the Liberals and the Nationals cannot be trusted. Not now, not ever.

  49. John. You could easy say that for Labor as well. I would suggest one of the key reasons we got done over in 96 is because the shooting community had not invested in elections. There wasn’t the need to. Then one guy came along and changed that for us. Don’t worry – the Nats still feel the spanking they got -just ask any long term Nat. The libs haven’t quite got the message yet as their party has shifted to the left. However that does not mean all their people or candidates have. Hence why we’re not backing the Libs or the Nats or Labor – but a selection of those people we believe can and will help us

  50. Hans
    I know. However we also know who is helping and coaching him. He’ll be onside. He made it to our “top nine” for a reason.

  51. Hi Neil

    I live in Bendigo Vic
    and was wondering in your opinion who will look after my interests as a Shooter in my neck of the woods.

  52. Neil, we’re all pretty sure that Labor are not our best friends, however, that is based on conjecture. We now first hand and from bitter experience what the Liberals will do given half a chance, and we also know from bitter bloody experience the Nationals will support them, and throw us under the bus in a heartbeat. It was Abbott that banned the Adler coming in, and that was only last year. As you say the Liberals haven’t got the message yet, I simply cannot believe the CFCV is backing two Liberals or Nationals for every one from Labor. Shooters shouldn’t be backing any Liberal or National until we’re damn sure they’ve got the message.

  53. Neil’s doing a bloody hard job the best way he can, but I’m still very concerned about shooters votes going to the Liberals and Nationals. We’re told backing candidates is what the NRA does. Fine, I’ll give you a quote from ex NRA Presdient Bob Corbin, “You’re either with us, or against us, and we don’t take prisoners”

  54. Hi Mick

    You’ve got a rotten field to choose from! If you can’t ‘pick a winner’ we would suggest backing the incumbent which in Bendigo is Labor. Your field is: VIC Bendigo MADDISON, Andy The Nationals 1
    VIC Bendigo GLAISHER, Rosemary The Greens
    VIC Bendigo CADDY, Sandy Rise Up Australia Party
    VIC Bendigo CHESTERS, Lisa Australian Labor Party
    VIC Bendigo PURCELL, Megan Liberal
    VIC Bendigo PARRAMORE, Ruth Animal Justice Party
    VIC Bendigo DONLON, Anita Erika Independent
    so provided you put Animal Justice Party and Greens last, I can’t really find someone there who we’d recognise as pro-gun. I wish I could help more!


  55. bruce Bertram

    Neil.. You have it wrong… in a big way… I AM taking part in the electorial process….. I am voting the way I see fit and proper.By not voting for any of them.. If I dont like any?? why the hell should I give any of them my vote !!!!! In my first message to you I informed you I am in Mr Mitchells electorate and have waited 6 years for him and he is yet to visit my factory…
    AND… You Neil have failed to pick up I am the Cartridge case maker and bullet maker in Seymour… I now wonder about YOUR shooting knowledge.

  56. Bruce
    It’s a fair comment to question my shooting knowledge, only because shooting is an extremely diverse sport. I’m a target shooter, not a hunter so that’s what I know and don’t know. That said, many others on our executive are hunters, as are those who put out the same voting recommendations elsewhere. So, getting back to the discussion, I have explained the options for voting both in McEwen in the Senate. That’s the best I can do in the discussion I’ve had with you. As for Mitchell, again I repeat there is stuff I can and can’t say in a public forum but suffice to say our recommendations aren’t just based on the candidate, but our discussions with their state / federal offices. I would like to suggest that you vote (or don’t vote) as you see fit but take up the invitation we’ll be putting out later this year for our shooting industry forum where we will be able to respond to the sort of detailed query you have made. It’s your call, but again you’re welcome to be there if you like. As for visiting your factory, that can be organised but it’s not something we’ve previously been asked to help with. Don’t forget many of these politicians (Mitchell included) have attended pro-shooting events such as the pollie shoots held by FGA. That’s not enough for us to recommend a vote for him by itself but is simply to make the point Mitchell has attended pro-shooting events, and will do so where there is a reason. At the very least please keep an eye out for the forum.

  57. Hans Witteveen

    Hi Neil,

    Thank you for your response to Peter and myself about supporting Michael Sukkar for Deakin. Although I stand by my negative report on him (I’ve had a number of phone surveys as well), I intend to rate him ahead of Labor and Greens but behind others who are breaking the unholy duopoly of Labor/Liberal that expects us to vote for their bastardy.

    On your response to Bruce Bertram about Pat MacNamara and the ballot box, we need to be more positive about publicly claiming our influence! The 1999 Kennett government loss was very much attributable to the pivotal influence of the shooting sports. We were the major pressure group that had cause to change traditional electoral loyalties. Although this was reflected across the board in loss of other government seats, it came down to the Wire in Geelong West which changed the critical numbers against the coalition. This seat changed by a mere 16 votes, if half of these had not changed electoral loyalties the Kennett government would have survived. Bet you we could still so long after this election find 9 voters in that electorate who were traditional coalition supporters but changed because of the Howard ‘Gun Laws’ that Kennett implemented?

  58. Hi Hans
    Yes, you are quite right in what you say. “We”, in the context I’ve used, refers to the CFCV but there were many others before then, and some of those were instrumental in guiding the CFCV in it’s early days – and are still effectively in charge of our political negotiations today.

    The problem we have, which I’m sure you will agree with, is that there hasn’t been a lobby group with any longevity. We’ve had the Shooters Party, and Country Alliance (which grew out of the ashes of the SP) and who is now sitting alongside the SFFP and LDP but we’ve grown to learn that running a lobby group and running political parties are very different things. Both have their uses but having been involved in both camps, know where I’m investing my time. That’s not to criticise anyone: to the contrary my own situation is coloured by my employment, but I guess my point is that a lot of the good work you mention predates my involvement and others. One of the problems i see going forward is that quite a lot of shooters in their thirties now were in their teens during the Kennett years so might not know that history. While we can and will go on about 96, we need to remember that a growing chunk of shooters may know as much about 96 as I know about Bodgies and Widgies! Yes, it was disappointing to see Kennett tow the Howard line despite public comments I remember he made showing even he had some doubts about going that way.

  59. Neil is very right in a point he makes here, many younger shooter don’t know a lot about what happened in 96, and that’s our fault, by our fault I mean every one of us bald headed, grey bearded old farts. Remember these words, ” those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it”. Every one of us old farts has a responsibility to ensure shooters never forget, nor forgive how we were treated, nor those responsible for the treatment that was handed out to us. I recently pointed this out to a Liberal candidate, who was upset because he felt I was blaming him for the treatment we received in 96, he pointed out he was just out of high school at the time and felt being blamed for something he had no part in was unfair. I rather curtly pointed out that no law abiding gun owners were at Port Arthur either, but that didn’t stop his party from blaming us anyway. I’m one of those stubborn bastards who smiles when I’m heading into a polling booth and some minion tries to give me a how to vote card from the “Buy- back Party”, just before stopping and quietly asking “what are my guns worth now”. As Neil pointed out in a previous post, the Libs haven’t got the message yet, we should be ensuring they do. I’ll remind any who read this of a vow many of us made in 96 as we watched prized possessions and family heirlooms crushed, Buy-back then……Pay-back Now.

  60. Hans Witteveen

    Neil, love your allusion about bodgies and widgies. Just remember that like ‘go ggo’ it has grown into our language – ever heard comment about ‘a bodgy job’?

    If you have contact with Michael Sukkar’s ‘coaches’, you might get them to suggest projecting a less smug and dismissive posture when dealing with issues that are not a Party priority – same comment goes for his State colleage for Micham, Dee Ryal. Our votes have to be earned.

    After you’ve read this, delete from public view.

  61. Neil,
    I never got this email until Friday night 8 July the election was last week. Irrespective of it being late I had a look at some of your responses. Now while it seems that the LNP may be able to ‘govern’ in their own right, Malcom Turnbull, when he was under more pressure than at this present time made the first approach to Bob Katter and then other independent parties.

    I think we shooters have done O.K. with the present situation its just a pity that the anti firearms and other assorted anti anything else are denigrating the intelligence and motives of the people who voted for ‘minority’ parties or other parties sympathetic to those of us in the shooting fraternity.

    I think for way too long shooters of all disciplines have been way to conservative for their own good. I hope that prior to this federal election (and since) has been a wake up call for all who enjoy this sport is not to take anything for granted and unless you stand up for your rights, or bury your head in the sand the anti shooters (for any reason) will win.

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